{"id":66425,"date":"2022-12-15T09:26:29","date_gmt":"2022-12-15T08:26:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/?p=66425"},"modified":"2023-07-07T14:00:33","modified_gmt":"2023-07-07T12:00:33","slug":"what-is-good-work-interview-with-sociologist-benedicte-zimmermann","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/en\/english\/what-is-good-work-interview-with-sociologist-benedicte-zimmermann\/","title":{"rendered":"What is \u201cGood Work\u201d? Interview with sociologist B\u00e9n\u00e9dicte Zimmermann"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>French sociologist B\u00e9n\u00e9dicte Zimmermann is the \u201cAlfred Grosser Visiting Professor for Civil Society Research\u201d at Goethe University this winter semester.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>UniReport: Prof. Zimmermann, as a French sociologist in Germany, you\u2019ve been studying the changes in the sphere of work for a long time. What are the differences between the French and German concepts of \u201cwork\u201d \u2013 are there specific national features, even in these times when work is increasingly globalized?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>B\u00e9n\u00e9dicte Zimmermann: <\/em><\/strong>Even though the national aspects of the concept of work have been effaced to a certain extent by globalization in business, for example by common trends towards flexibilization and raising productivity and profits, but also through measures to modernize the social welfare state (such as the \u201cHartz 4\u201d legislation in Germany), they have certainly not been eradicated. The concept of Good Work provides a good example of this because, originally, at the beginning of the 2000s, it was driven forward by the European Commission under the motto \u201cQuality of work\u201d. The aim \u2013 apart from the classical criteria for working conditions such as pay, working hours, accident protection and physical strain \u2013 was also to highlight the psychological consequences of work, such as stress and burnout. However, the semantic field that developed in the EU\u2019s publications now includes German and French translations that are at variance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>How would you characterize these differences in the French and German translations?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In France, the focus has been on \u201cpsychological burdens at the workplace\u201d and understood as a matter for public and occupational health policy under the motto \u201cqualit\u00e9 de vie au travail\u201d. In Germany, by contrast, the topic of \u201cquality of work\u201d has been rolled out by a trade union campaign under the motto \u201cdecent work\u201d in a context of increasing precariousness in the wake of the Hartz reforms. While the French discourse reflected on the subjective aspect of the quality of work in the sense of tolerable work, the Germans concentrated more on the question of desirable work. Here the discussions addressed the gap between actual working conditions and what the workforce wants, as a problem for society. The assumed expectations of employees, as communicated by the trade union representatives, form the starting point for the definition. But in France, the health of the workforce provides the foundation for defining \u201cquality of life at the workplace\u201d. So, where Germans speak of a social and societal problem, the French speak more of a problem in public health.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>How did these differences come about?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One major factor definitely lies in the differing ways that work is regulated in the two countries. In Germany, work is regulated in a decentralized and participatory manner through codetermination, and therefore work-related expertise tends to be mobilized within employers\u2019 and employees\u2019 organizations. On the other hand, the centralized, adversarial French system leads to greater external mobilization of expertise that comes to the fore in national, public debates. These observations are echoed in the thesis of the \u201ceffet societal\u201d, which Marc Maurice, Fran\u00e7ois Sellier and Jean-Jacques Silvestre developed in a Franco-German comparison back in the 1980s. Their thesis states that the employment relationships in France and Germany \u2013 and work generally \u2013 are rooted in societal configurations that unfold at the point where three types of relations meet: the \u201ctraining relations\u201d (the initial and further vocational training system), the \u201cindustrial relations\u201d (labor relations), and the \u201corganizational relations\u201d (workplace structure, hierarchy of players in the company, modes of management and cooperation). This thesis turns out to remain largely relevant even today, with an increasing \u201chydrogenation\u201d of the two configurations becoming apparent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>The concept of work (in German use primarily the concept of one\u2019s occupation) is frequently associated with the meaning of (individual) life, and of self-realization. But today we also talk about the younger generation in particular wishing to mitigate the risk of overwork and striving for a reasonable work-life balance. Do you also observe this tendency?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This emphasis on the individual dimension of work reflects the differences I just mentioned. In Germany it is not only the upcoming generation that is paying attention to their work-life balance; this is also a key aspect in the trade unions\u2019 debates on Decent Work, although we do observe a growing demand in this respect among the younger generation. This demand is now more frequently accompanied by another, equally important issue, namely the ecological sustainability of work. And in fact in France we see the same trend towards a better work-life balance and towards work that respects the Earth and other living beings. Some graduates from universities such as the AgroParisTech and HEC, which educate the future top managers in French companies, hit the headlines this year when, at their graduation ceremony, they called the jobs for which they had been trained \u201cdestructive\u201d and appealed for changes to the corporate rules of play. So, even if only a small number of graduates are as active as this, something is shifting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Not least, digitization is also permanently changing work and working relations. What will happen if academic occupations are replaced by Artificial Intelligence? Or is that not very likely?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The impacts of digitization are ambivalent. Firstly, the possibility of working from home opened up by digitization can improve the work-life balance, and secondly, digitization also brings with it what Mary L. Gray and Siddharth Suri have termed \u201cghost work\u201d, i.e. work that is essential for Artificial Intelligence to function smoothly but which cannot be performed by the machines, even though it is usually either unskilled or only semi-skilled. This work is outsourced to freelancers on piecework who have no protection under labor law, which fosters the emergence of a new worldwide underclass. If we look at digitization from an ecological perspective, it appears to be just as ambivalent. Digitization enables working from home, which can make work more ecologically sustainable by helping to shorten travelling time and reducing the areas covered by companies, especially in the service sector. But digital technologies simultaneously encourage non-sustainable work because of the quantity of energy they need. And this begins with the energy-hungry infrastructures required for sending emails or surfing the internet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Over the last two years, the topic of working from home was suddenly at the front of our minds due to the corona pandemic. How do you think this will develop?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s hard to say how it will go. Working from home will remain popular, that much is certain. At the same time, however, some employees and companies are becoming less enthusiastic. It is true that working from home can also lead to isolation and anomy among the workers, and for the companies to a diminished collective cooperation dynamic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Your public lecture is entitled \u201cLifelong training: societal, corporate or individual responsibility? A Franco-German comparison\u201d. Could you tell us more about that?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are several different objectives served by lifelong training (e.g. corporate competitiveness, combating unemployment, training for a different job and personal development), and it\u2019s not easy to integrate them. Training for the purpose of adapting to the firm\u2019s needs or a rapid return to the labor market cannot necessarily be combined with what the persons concerned wish to achieve through their training programs. This throws up questions \u2013 about the individual\u2019s scope for flexibility and taking action in relation to training, and also about how the responsibility for promoting this ability to act is distributed between public institutions, companies, social partners and individuals. An empirical survey of social advancement training at a multinational aviation company and two of its production sites shows that in Germany the individual workers have more responsibility for advancement training than they do in France. The lecture aims to solve the puzzle of why this is so despite the codetermination institutions giving the German workers a certain power that simply does not exist in France.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Questions: Dirk Frank<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignleft size-full is-resized is-style-rounded\"><a href=\"https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1.jpg\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-66369\" width=\"225\" height=\"225\" srcset=\"https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1.jpg 450w, https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/aktuelles.uni-frankfurt.de\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Bild_UR6.22_Zimmermann-1-12x12.jpg 12w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background\" style=\"background-color:#eeeeee\"><strong>B\u00e9n\u00e9dicte Zimmermann<\/strong> is Professor of Sociology at the \u00c9cole des hautes \u00e9tudes en Sciences Sociales in Paris, and a Permanent Fellow at the Wissenschaftskolleg in Berlin. She will deliver the public lecture on \u201cLifelong training: societal, corporate or individual responsibility? A Franco-German comparison\u201d in the Casino Building, 1.801 Renate von Metzler Room on Monday, 30&nbsp;January 2023, starting at 7.00 p.m.<br><br>The<strong> Alfred Grosser Chair for Civil Society Research <\/strong>was established in 2009 by the Polytechnic Foundation of Frankfurt am Main, on the initiative of the Franco-German Society. The project is intended to drive forward research and public discourse on civil society in Frankfurt, and to make them more visible internationally.<br><br>Photo: Emmanuel Quetin<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>French sociologist B\u00e9n\u00e9dicte Zimmermann is the \u201cAlfred Grosser Visiting Professor for Civil Society Research\u201d at Goethe University this winter semester. UniReport: Prof. Zimmermann, as a French sociologist in Germany, you\u2019ve [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":66365,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_eb_attr":"","_price":"","_stock":"","_tribe_ticket_header":"","_tribe_default_ticket_provider":"","_ticket_start_date":"","_ticket_end_date":"","_tribe_ticket_show_description":"","_tribe_ticket_show_not_going":false,"_tribe_ticket_use_global_stock":"","_tribe_ticket_global_stock_level":"","_global_stock_mode":"","_global_stock_cap":"","_tribe_rsvp_for_event":"","_tribe_ticket_going_count":"","_tribe_ticket_not_going_count":"","_tribe_tickets_list":"[]","_tribe_ticket_has_attendee_info_fields":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[126,261,173],"tags":[278,231,227],"post_folder":[],"class_list":["post-66425","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-english","category-in-brief","category-unireport","tag-interview-en","tag-social-sciences","tag-unireport-6-22"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.3 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>What is \u201cGood Work\u201d? 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